A word on Pk the age old argument one more time. - Endless Ages

Hellbinder · 07-03-2008, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frogger

then what is the point of the game to have pking

There has to be a way to have open PVP that somehow does not make it a "goal" to turn red from killing everyone in sight and whats worse with no real penalties. The argument has been made many times that Everything agroing you is somehow a penalty but it simply isnt. Especially when the people doing this get off on abusing other players and dont care about anything else.

This is something none of the devs that ever had this game understood and yet they never bothered to stop and wonder why they can't seem to get a player base big enough to support the game. most people will simply not stick around in a game that seemingly rewards bad behavior.

If people choose the path of the dark side that is fine. It adds flavor to the game. But.. Somehow there needs to be ever increasing penalties to do so. It already has built in rewards. like the feeling of dominating other people, all the loot you get from stealing their stuff, people fearing you, leaving areas when you are around, quitting the game because of you. If there is no penalties then the game is unbalanced for the regular player. Who likes to PVP but does not attack people in the middle of fighting quest mobs, does not spawn camp, does not hide in obvious areas where people "appear" that is not a sz etc just to get easy kills.

The game needs built in penalties for this behavior that actually creates major problems for those who conduct themselves like this. Like penalties to damage, or protection over time etc. Either that or some crazy mythical beast that spawns randomly wherever they are and goes after only them. like a mega trisk or something.

No one plays a game (especially with cool quests and great atmosphere) just to get abused, or raped and verbally abused when the deed is done.

yes this is an FPS but it is also a RPG. And yes it needs pking but it also needs checks and balances to keep people like (you know who) from intentionally doing nothing but ruining other players experience in the game.

Call me a *noob* all you want I will stand by this from now until the end of time.

**oogie** · 07-03-2008, 10:21 AM

THIS^^^I like this.

I gues I would qualify as what others might term "carebear". I don't like to pvp and really don't like being pk'd while working on something. Whie at the same time, I have had a time or two to actually fight and enjoy.

I know that there is something in the works that would make PK'ing a very penalty heavy thing to avoid. I can't speak on it right now though. Think 'penalty box".

As for bad behavior, as it stands right now, I am the only GM. I can't be in game 24/7. I try to pop in as often as posible and will answer any message about such things. This is where players can help me out. There is a screen capture program that is available "Howie's Screen Capture"-- takes pics really nicely. Screen shot this stuff and send it to me so that I have hard evidence to take action.

This is all I know to say at this time. I would love to hear what the players say about this though.

oogs

beeper23 · 07-03-2008, 10:39 AM

well... how about something from FoM? whenever someone dies from a PKer that person will respawn with a card/item that when used will put the Pker in a sort of time out? (in FoM some players did work as cops to catch players and throw them in jail but since this game doesn't have a jail...) I dont think PvP is bad even the way it is in EA ( I tend to like using a bit of stealth lol) but the fact that you drop all but a few items that are "non-drop" items does make it a pain in the *beep*. So maybe... make the game so players dont drop everything but maybe ammo, health items, and/or some(?) money? So theres still something there for PKers (item wise) but still something that doesn't make it the perfect "job" in EA. Or they can just make it that PvP gives JUST EXP based on both the victims level and the murders level?
Bet ya if they did that it would make the PKing a lot easier, ya?

Edit:
Wait a min.... don't GMs have godmode or something?

plasticAiredale · 07-03-2008, 10:55 AM

I would love for the game to be reworked a little for better PvP as well. I've had some ideas on how to make the murder/PvP aspects of the game better, and this thread seems like a good place to mention it.

Goals:
1. Reduce desire to kill weaker players
2. Strengthen desire to kill equal or greater players that also want to fight
3. Preserve the prevention of accidental murdering of friends and innocents
4. Remove rewards for repeated killing of same person in a certain time frame

In a Nutshell:
1. PvP Points automatically assigned.
2. PvE mode (wait....not quite what you think, read "PvE Mode")
3. New PvP scoring system (like raising stats)
4. Arena awards PvP points
5. PvP Points separate from "being red"
6. Red Status would be acquired by killing people in PvE mode
7. Red Status would be removed by doing "community service" quests from a certain NPC, or whatever people think is best.
8. No "Top 50" lists for how many PvE murders you committed. But a top list of PvP points could be posted on the website. Make killing PvP people the goal, not how many grief kills you can get.

Guts:
PvP points automatically assigned - If you kill someone, you get PvP points.

PvE Mode:
In this mode your shots can only be registered on NPC/mobs, not players. But in PvE mode you can still killed by a PvP mode player. As soon as you are hit by PKer you are auto switched to PvP to defend yourself. Your name can be yellow to alert other players as to your current status.

Scoring:

I believe the shortcoming of the current system is that all players are treated equally when it comes to rewards for killing them (i.e. 1 murder). You can argue that a lvl12 can kill a lvl18 because this game is based on skill. But a lvl12 probably doesn't have his best gun yet, doesn't have the experience in fighting, or his best armor. So most likely it isn't a completely equal fight, though your results may vary.

Your level = Enemy level = 100 points
Your level > Enemy level by 1 = 90 points
Your level > Enemy level by 2 = 80 points
and so on....
Your level < Enemy level by 1 = 105 points
Your level < Enemy level by 2 = 110 points
and so on...

Murder frequency punishments:
Kill the same player less than a minute after killing him before = 0% points rewarded
kill the same player less than 5 minutes after killing him = 5% points rewarded
<= 10 minutes = 10% points
<= 20 minutes = 25% points
<= 30 minutes = 50% points
<= 40 minutes = 75% points
<= 50 minutes = 90% points
>= 1 hour = 100% points ( or murder took place in the arena)

Leveling PvP Stat:
Like all the other "skills" after a certain amount of points you gain a level of "PvP", This level wouldn't be capped, So people could be walking around with a PvP level of 18.99, or 1899.99. You could reward the levels allowing access to certain trophy rewards, special scrolls or orbs or house color or armor colors. Just something so they would stand out.

Murderer Punishments :
If this game really is about PvP at endgame, there really should be no punishment for killing players, as that is what you are supposed to be doing. If the current system is designed to protect the midgamers, by allowing them the option to "punish" them by assigning murders, and thus deter people from PKing, its not working so good. As murders are seen as rewards, not punishments by most PKers. So I believe the punishment should be more severe. Give high level PvPers new nondrop stuff that would turn into droppable upon turning Red. Being Red is not seen as a punishment right now, and it should.

I realize that most of these changes will have to be done on the engine itself, and thus is not something that can be implemented anytime soon. But it is worth keeping in mind when the time arises to make changes.

Blobz · 07-03-2008, 11:20 AM

I think no is pretty much all that needs to be said for this... no further elaboration necessary.

samtheman768 · 07-03-2008, 12:18 PM

not getting to technical with this...
but even tho ppl hate runescape..idky
maybe we can have a pvp system like tht...in the sense tht wen u kill someone u get a temporary skull over ur head and u can talk to any NPCs or anything.

KILL · 07-03-2008, 01:13 PM

all im going to say is... lol... learn to fight

Gamefish · 07-03-2008, 01:56 PM

Whatever ranking system is implemented should also display player name of who you "killed most" with the number and also name of player "killed by" the most and a number. This will prevent abuse between two consenting players to increase their numbers. It would be obvious on the rankings that they were only killing each other. It would also make repeat killing not as good as killing someone new. For example:

Rzr5 100 total kills, 103 PVP deaths; killed most: Noob1 85 kills; killed most by: Noob1 95 kills

would not look as good as:

Rzr5 100 total kills, 92 PVP deaths; killed most: Noob1 10 kills; killed most by: Noob2 8 kills

or assign a Kill Score calculated by subtracting the number of kills of your largest victim from your total kills and adding the difference between your kills and number of times you were killed (this could be a negative number)

In the above examples:

the first would have a Kill Score of (100-85)+(100-103)= 12
the second would have a Kill Score of (100-10)+(100-92) = 98

Rzr5

ioe · 07-03-2008, 03:08 PM

Gamefish, looking at your sig possibly made me dumber.

Hellbinder · 07-03-2008, 04:52 PM

1. Just "no" is not an answer there is a problem

2. "learning to fight" is not the answer. There is no learning to fight on earth that will save a player with level 12-13 armor from a level 15 player with a death gun. Even two or three at a time.

The answer is that PVP is good and abuse is not good. There needs to be a system that allows for open PVP but actually PUNISHES players who are abusers.

And you guys can say no all you want are the 10 of you who like to abuse going to pay 200 bucks a month each becuase all the rest of the potential players left?

Pk is not the "endgame" as it is claimed by previous developers. Griefing ends up being the endgame and they all ran this game into the ground and it barely limped along losing money. PVP needs to be the endgame but the right kind of PVP.

Penalties for abusing other players is what is needed in this game.

Hellbinder · 07-03-2008, 04:57 PM

actually PVP shoudl not be the "Endgame" I think it needs to be part of the Whole game.

If this game had some kind of competative PVP gaming system then it would always have a purpose for getting quests done and getting bigger and better weapons and armor.

Blobz · 07-03-2008, 06:08 PM

There is no problem with pvp at the moment aside from the fact that the 16 guns are all gimped and you can't turn red, aside from that everything is peachy. People in level 12 armour aren't supposed to have a chance against somebody with a death gun, that's why death guns are worth getting. You obviously have no idea what this game is about so I don't know why you're here...

Pain · 07-03-2008, 07:40 PM

Mostly trying to read these posts just gives me a headache. There's like two people here who can string together a coherent sentence. The rest of you are retards.

Just go ahead a post "blah blah blah" because that's what you really mean.

That is all.

KILL · 07-03-2008, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioe

Gamefish, looking at your sig possibly made me dumber.

lol
I love IOE

iiixiii · 07-03-2008, 08:26 PM

There is no "problem" you have safe zones for a reason..we have a no pk until lvl 12 in for a reason... a red is just another monster on the map in the unsafe areas one that uses a brain and will give u a real challenge. Pvp is apart of this game and trying to change the pvp will just remove the fun out of the game.\\\

1. It will have rankings

2. It will have a murder system

3. It will have an arena

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellbinder

1. Just "no" is not an answer there is a problem

2. "learning to fight" is not the answer. There is no learning to fight on earth that will save a player with level 12-13 armor from a level 15 player with a death gun. Even two or three at a time.

The answer is that PVP is good and abuse is not good. There needs to be a system that allows for open PVP but actually PUNISHES players who are abusers.

And you guys can say no all you want are the 10 of you who like to abuse going to pay 200 bucks a month each becuase all the rest of the potential players left?

Pk is not the "endgame" as it is claimed by previous developers. Griefing ends up being the endgame and they all ran this game into the ground and it barely limped along losing money. PVP needs to be the endgame but the right kind of PVP.

Penalties for abusing other players is what is needed in this game.

Gamefish · 07-03-2008, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioe

Gamefish, looking at your sig possibly made me dumber.

I'm glad you like it. Kipperlips made it for me.

BlanK · 07-03-2008, 11:52 PM

It could possibly be changed, but in the end, the PKers will still take murders as accomplishments, you can't change that. Is it perfect no, I'll admit that, and to a point there does need to be room for some minor "carebear"-ing. At least before spawn raping wasn't really an issue, most PKers would stop after getting their murder unless they were A) really bored or B) a dickface. Believe it or not there are ways ingame to get past PKers, such as the hide skill or eans/skoids. You can't leave PKers in total despair with ridiculous penalties because then they're gone, and there goes a challenge to the game. Ledging a runeboss or something isn't very challenging, fighting off a PKer/fleeing from a PKer is. I'm not a PKer myself or anything, but if you want more severe penalties they have to be fair, like the accuracy on guards going up if there's no one in the area of the guard.

Frogger · 07-04-2008, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellbinder

actually PVP shoudl not be the "Endgame" I think it needs to be part of the Whole game.

If this game had some kind of competative PVP gaming system then it would always have a purpose for getting quests done and getting bigger and better weapons and armor.

my god hellbinder this game isnt just about the ****ing quests or getting better **** you gotta have some skill into it also

Atlow · 07-04-2008, 05:57 AM

The pk system was always fine. If you're being "abused" take screenshots or video and report it there is?(used to be) a ToS where repeated spawn camping and verbal harassment were punishable.

Sheeva · 07-04-2008, 08:24 AM

I always thought that "Divine Intervention" would punish those who over abuse the pk system.

Example: A pker pks ruthlessely all day. Walks about on his way to where He/She considers safe and is hit by a bolt of lightning. It does not matter where you are rebirthed at the time, the system will override your rebirth command and send you to your home city. And its totally random.... just another hitch in the life of a pker.

I always thought that would be cool ... being chased by a pker when out of nowhere BOOM you turn around and its nothing but a big burnt spot with the pkers goods (dropped items) spread about the ground.

LOL Id be tempted to go pk just to get hit!

Sirkillalot · 07-04-2008, 10:40 AM

agreed with blobz and ixxi in there posts.. simply no lol.. and Oogie said some kind of penalty box? if they introduce this I quit and im sure many others that enjoy PK will as well... In all other PVP PVPVPVPVPVPVPVPVP games there are frigin ganking you noobs.. tell me a awesome MMROPG where there isnt idiots.. thats why those games got PVE servers. EA = 1 SERVER PVP